WEBVTT - This file was automatically generated by VIMEO 0 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:13.500 you 1 00:00:23.200 --> 00:00:26.400 so it's exciting to have our University scholar series. 2 00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:31.800 Kicking off in another another semester and excited 3 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.400 to have Dr. Dara Hoffman here. But before 4 00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:37.800 I get into that and the music plays over me as if 5 00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:40.400 the Oscars have happened want to 6 00:00:40.400 --> 00:00:43.600 move on to a couple of important items before 7 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:45.600 I introduce the speaker for the day. 8 00:00:47.300 --> 00:00:50.600 While We Gather in San Jose State University, we 9 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:53.500 are gathered on the ethno historic tribal territory of 10 00:00:53.500 --> 00:00:57.000 Gatman oloni who were direct and Sisters 11 00:00:56.300 --> 00:00:59.100 of the lineages enrolled in the 12 00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:02.900 Moët Maloney tribe and who were missionized into 13 00:01:02.900 --> 00:01:05.800 Mission Santa Clara San Jose and Dolores the 14 00:01:05.800 --> 00:01:09.100 lands on which San Jose State University is established 15 00:01:08.100 --> 00:01:11.400 and continues to be of 16 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.800 significance to the mohic Maloney tribe. We also 17 00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:17.300 recognized that the ancestors of moek Malone 18 00:01:17.300 --> 00:01:21.200 constructed and maintained the three Bay Area missions our 19 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:23.400 campus extends to surrounding areas that 20 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:26.600 held upon thaka traditional Roadhouse which were 21 00:01:26.600 --> 00:01:29.700 once located at the historic Lopez Nigo 22 00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:33.000 and Grant and I'm tropical solomi Oso 23 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:35.600 posolemi impositas De 24 00:01:35.600 --> 00:01:38.700 Las Animas little Wells of Souls, and also 25 00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:41.600 Marcelo Pio and Crystal Palace 26 00:01:41.600 --> 00:01:44.500 land grant Rancho Oli stock which were 27 00:01:44.500 --> 00:01:46.600 places of Celebration and religious. 28 00:01:47.500 --> 00:01:50.900 Ceremonies as well as nearby ancestral heritage 29 00:01:50.900 --> 00:01:53.200 shell Mounds the served as the 30 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:56.600 tribes traditional Cemetery sites and territorial monuments 31 00:01:56.600 --> 00:02:00.200 San Jose State University. Also desires 32 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.900 to honor the military service of the Milwaukee men 33 00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:05.600 and women who have honorably served overseas during 34 00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:08.800 World War One World War Two Korea Vietnam 35 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:11.200 Desert Storm Iraq, and we're still serving 36 00:02:11.200 --> 00:02:13.200 in the united Armed Forces today. 37 00:02:15.200 --> 00:02:15.800 Thank you. 38 00:02:18.700 --> 00:02:21.300 Fantastic, and so 39 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:24.300 as I mentioned, we're gonna use the Q&A function. So 40 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:27.900 if you have questions that come up, please put them there and we'll be 41 00:02:27.900 --> 00:02:30.600 able to go through that as we go the webinar is 42 00:02:30.600 --> 00:02:33.800 being recorded. We've got live captioning enabled 43 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:36.800 if anyone needs that and so those are 44 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:40.400 some of the core elements with that then have 45 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:43.200 to thank a number of sponsors obviously the 46 00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:46.700 office of provost the team here particularly Melanie schluscus 47 00:02:46.700 --> 00:02:49.500 who works hard from our end the King Library 48 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:52.400 the school of information division of research and 49 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:55.500 Innovation and the Spartan bookstore of all contributed making this 50 00:02:55.500 --> 00:02:55.800 possible. 51 00:02:58.200 --> 00:03:01.100 So with that I'm honored to be 52 00:03:01.100 --> 00:03:04.700 able to introduce Dr. Dara Hoffman who is a an assistant 53 00:03:04.700 --> 00:03:07.700 professor in the school of information here at 54 00:03:07.700 --> 00:03:10.700 San Jose State University. She has an absolutely 55 00:03:10.700 --> 00:03:13.700 incredible background grew up 56 00:03:13.700 --> 00:03:16.200 in Lexington, Kentucky where I got my PhD, so 57 00:03:16.200 --> 00:03:19.300 I've already geeked out with her on that but she actually has 58 00:03:19.300 --> 00:03:23.100 two degrees from Arizona State University including a 59 00:03:22.100 --> 00:03:25.100 bachelor's degree in English 60 00:03:25.100 --> 00:03:28.100 literature as well as your Juris doctorate and I guess 61 00:03:28.100 --> 00:03:31.400 given that she said I need to do some more so she 62 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.300 got her Master's on Master science and Library 63 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:37.500 science from the University of Kentucky and then her PhD 64 00:03:37.500 --> 00:03:41.100 in library archival and information science in 2020 65 00:03:40.100 --> 00:03:43.800 from the University of British Columbia. It is 66 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.700 an absolute pleasure to have her on the faculty. Her 67 00:03:46.700 --> 00:03:49.200 work is really Dynamic and interesting looking 68 00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:52.500 at the intersections of all kinds of 69 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:57.200 issues about access to archival 70 00:03:55.200 --> 00:03:57.600 work. 71 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:00.600 the kinds of things that people are asking about 72 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:05.400 Looking at for example queer digital 73 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.200 privacy what's happening in the 74 00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:09.800 context of the covid pandemic? 75 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.200 But more broadly has been able to also identify 76 00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:16.100 a number of opportunities to bring 77 00:04:16.100 --> 00:04:19.700 resources to the campus to work on some really interesting 78 00:04:19.700 --> 00:04:22.100 projects collaboratively with a number 79 00:04:22.100 --> 00:04:25.400 of people here including resources from 80 00:04:25.400 --> 00:04:28.600 The Institute of Museum and Library studies as well 81 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:31.500 as a National Science Foundation. So it's absolutely a 82 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:35.300 pleasure to have Dara here today who will 83 00:04:35.300 --> 00:04:38.500 be talking about forever or five years record keeping 84 00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:40.000 and human thriving. 85 00:04:41.200 --> 00:04:45.000 If I unmute myself, it wouldn't be a zoom if someone didn't try to talk without unmuting. 86 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:50.400 So thank you so much for having me. I am Del. 87 00:04:50.700 --> 00:04:53.400 Ighted be here. Very honored to make my work sound. 88 00:04:53.400 --> 00:04:56.500 So interesting already which kind of kills my initial joke, 89 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:58.500 which was going to be about the fact that 90 00:04:59.200 --> 00:05:02.500 I started my PhD in archival science. My brothers 91 00:05:02.500 --> 00:05:05.000 said there you get bored in the 92 00:05:05.100 --> 00:05:09.000 middle of it while you're talking. How are you going to study record keeping 93 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:09.500 provides? 94 00:05:14.900 --> 00:05:17.200 1995 in which 95 00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:20.300 Jeff Rosenberg wrote that digital information 96 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:23.600 lasts forever for five years, whichever comes 97 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.600 first and he gave the example of having 98 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:29.700 problem with the secrets to his fortune 99 00:05:29.700 --> 00:05:32.200 that his grandchildren would have to find some way 100 00:05:32.200 --> 00:05:35.000 to read in 2041 which of course 101 00:05:35.200 --> 00:05:38.900 to us in 2023 already sounds laughable, you 102 00:05:38.900 --> 00:05:41.500 know don't come with cdrawal drives anymore. 103 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:44.300 Right? It seems almost like it is a throwback 104 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:47.900 to a past there and we've only seen the digital 105 00:05:47.900 --> 00:05:51.100 Revolution move faster and faster with news 106 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:53.500 forms of digital communication new 107 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:56.600 forms of digital information and we have seen that, 108 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:00.100 you know the ability to preserve and 109 00:05:59.100 --> 00:06:02.800 to ensure ongoing access to our digital access 110 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.500 is increasingly precarious. And 111 00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:08.200 so I'm sure a lot of you might think 112 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:10.000 So what? 113 00:06:10.200 --> 00:06:13.600 Who cares? Right and I just love this picture because to 114 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:17.000 me it very much kind of captures that very orderly 115 00:06:16.300 --> 00:06:19.800 idea of Records versus the idea of data, 116 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.600 which can be reordered into 117 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.600 lots of different ways. So but so 118 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.200 what right who cares about record 119 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:29.500 Well, the answer is we all should. 120 00:06:30.900 --> 00:06:33.500 This is from The New York Times about a 121 00:06:33.500 --> 00:06:36.600 dispute in which milk truck drivers 122 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.500 received 5 million dollars on the basis of 123 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:41.100 a missing call. 124 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:44.600 Now that what does that have to do with records now imagine 125 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:48.000 you're the drivers and you cannot produce the contract. 126 00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:50.900 You can't prove that the comma is there this 127 00:06:50.900 --> 00:06:53.400 is unlikely to happen in this situation where you're 128 00:06:53.400 --> 00:06:56.900 dealing with a large corporate body like this because records 129 00:06:56.900 --> 00:06:59.400 management is so integrated into their functions, 130 00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:02.600 but think how often it happens with smaller folks 131 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.500 folks who don't have a record management 132 00:07:05.500 --> 00:07:09.100 function built into their operations. You can't 133 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:11.700 prove you can't produce the contract the 134 00:07:11.700 --> 00:07:14.300 contract doesn't exist, especially in a lot 135 00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:17.400 of places where you're dealing more than 500 dollars because 136 00:07:17.400 --> 00:07:19.300 that's the line for the fact you defrost. 137 00:07:19.700 --> 00:07:22.500 So without our record keeping we can't 138 00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:23.700 prove our legal rights. 139 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:29.300 We've also lost as much as 80% of 140 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:32.700 our scientific data from the 1990s. And those of you who are 141 00:07:32.700 --> 00:07:35.400 working in research know how 142 00:07:35.400 --> 00:07:38.500 this happens. You have that one postdoc who's in 143 00:07:38.500 --> 00:07:41.400 charge of maintaining spreadsheets. They go off take a 144 00:07:41.400 --> 00:07:44.400 job good Brazil. Um, and then you go look 145 00:07:44.400 --> 00:07:47.700 at the spreadsheets three years later. And what does 146 00:07:47.700 --> 00:07:50.600 AC in this column again? There's no 147 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:54.000 metadata. You might not even know where the spreadsheets 148 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:56.600 are saved. It might have been in their personal Google or Drive 149 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:59.900 account or you know on a day because 150 00:07:59.900 --> 00:08:02.300 we're gonna get the 90s on a floppy or 151 00:08:02.300 --> 00:08:05.200 CD that has long since been lost and this is not 152 00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:08.200 you know, apocal scary story. This is 153 00:08:08.200 --> 00:08:12.600 a thing that has happened throughout the Sciences since the 154 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:15.700 beginning of the computer age the archivist Margaret headstrong 155 00:08:15.700 --> 00:08:18.800 wrote In 1980 about the fact that this 156 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.200 was coming and we lost 80% 157 00:08:21.200 --> 00:08:24.300 of our raw scientific data, which means that now 158 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:25.400 that we have new Analytics. 159 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:29.900 Now that we have new approaches new theories. Yeah 160 00:08:29.900 --> 00:08:32.300 to test it gain new 161 00:08:32.300 --> 00:08:32.700 insight. 162 00:08:32.900 --> 00:08:35.700 All that money all that time. All that expertise 163 00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:38.100 is just thought because we weren't planning for 164 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:40.300 how to take care of our digital. 165 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:46.100 And finally more sadly. This 166 00:08:45.100 --> 00:08:49.700 is a photo from a coverage 167 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:52.500 of the Civil documentation crisis with 168 00:08:52.500 --> 00:08:55.600 Syria's initial Refugee. Right one 169 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.500 of Syria's Refugee crises, and the simple fact 170 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:01.800 is if you cannot prove your status as 171 00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:04.500 a refugee, it is a much longer much 172 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:07.600 harder Journey getting any supports to get Asylum to 173 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:10.200 get services and when I say much longer, 174 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:13.700 we're talking on the order of year year sitting in 175 00:09:13.700 --> 00:09:16.400 a tent somewhere relying on 176 00:09:16.400 --> 00:09:19.200 unhcr a the cause you don't 177 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:22.600 have the piece of paper that could prove your status prove your 178 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:25.500 Refugee and help you to move on and 179 00:09:25.500 --> 00:09:29.000 in addition. There are literally millions of stateless 180 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:32.300 people in the world people who have no documentation of 181 00:09:31.300 --> 00:09:35.100 where they were born no ability to 182 00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:37.400 prove that they belong to any country which leads them 183 00:09:37.400 --> 00:09:41.200 in this incredible state of limbo because in 184 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:41.800 part they 185 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:42.800 the records 186 00:09:43.900 --> 00:09:47.100 to prove and to assert their 187 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:47.500 right? 188 00:09:48.100 --> 00:09:51.800 Everyone should care about records because records are so critical 189 00:09:51.800 --> 00:09:54.700 to every kind of functioning for 190 00:09:54.700 --> 00:09:55.600 us as a society. 191 00:09:56.300 --> 00:10:00.300 Now then records are not perfect. They are deeply problematic 192 00:09:59.300 --> 00:10:02.700 in a lot of ways. For example, 193 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:05.200 I'm really grateful that we had the land of knowledge. 194 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.200 Although of course land involvements are not the same as land 195 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.500 back because one of the things that we are having to confront 196 00:10:11.500 --> 00:10:13.600 in archival science is our ongoing 197 00:10:15.400 --> 00:10:18.200 settler Colonial approaches within record-keeping and 198 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:21.200 the way that records Allied a lot 199 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:24.800 of history and a lot of Hope but nonetheless records have 200 00:10:24.800 --> 00:10:27.900 evolved this technology over literally thousands of 201 00:10:27.900 --> 00:10:30.200 year that help us order the way we 202 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.400 exist as a society and if we get record keeping wrong, 203 00:10:33.400 --> 00:10:36.400 we risk having a lot of other things go wrong. 204 00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:40.200 Now then records and data are in fact 205 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:43.800 different and that difference is really important and we've 206 00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:46.400 lost sight of that in a way that has 207 00:10:46.400 --> 00:10:49.600 made a lot of our data Phi digital Technologies really 208 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.900 dangerous problems. 209 00:10:51.800 --> 00:10:54.700 So a record is a document made or received 210 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:57.300 in the course of a practical activity as an instrument or 211 00:10:57.300 --> 00:11:00.400 byproductive activity and set aside for action or 212 00:11:00.400 --> 00:11:03.400 reference and I saw some of my archivists in the room go ahead 213 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:07.000 and this matters because recreate exist 214 00:11:06.300 --> 00:11:08.500 in a broader context. 215 00:11:09.400 --> 00:11:12.500 Um, when you look at a record, for example, if I pick 216 00:11:12.500 --> 00:11:15.800 up a book, there is a lot of information 217 00:11:15.800 --> 00:11:18.300 that I gain just from interacting 218 00:11:18.300 --> 00:11:21.900 with that book from seeing that that it's implicitly clear. 219 00:11:21.900 --> 00:11:24.800 Whereas data can be 220 00:11:24.800 --> 00:11:27.700 almost anything and data is not necessarily have 221 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:30.200 any sort of context attached to it. We can 222 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.800 add context to data through metadata and Paradise, but 223 00:11:33.800 --> 00:11:36.200 it is not an inherent quality of data that it 224 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:38.700 has context in the same way that records 225 00:11:40.300 --> 00:11:43.600 Now then raw data, this is one of my favorite quotes raw data 226 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.800 is both an oxymoron and a bad idea. There's no 227 00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:49.300 such thing as raw date data does not spring up 228 00:11:49.300 --> 00:11:52.200 from the ground like flowers for us to pluck and put in 229 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:55.300 our baskets data is always created and 230 00:11:55.300 --> 00:11:58.300 curated by human. Even if it's observing the 231 00:11:58.300 --> 00:12:01.300 natural world. It still is filtered through 232 00:12:01.300 --> 00:12:04.600 human beings and human perceptions, you know, 233 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:08.100 if you are looking at temperature data 234 00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:10.200 and you discover that there's a flaw 235 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:13.500 in your thermometer books. The data 236 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:16.300 was never raw dated. The data can be bad can 237 00:12:16.300 --> 00:12:19.500 be wrong and wrong raw date is also a terrible idea 238 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:22.100 because when we treat data as a thing 239 00:12:22.100 --> 00:12:25.300 that pops up from the ground fully form, we lose sight of 240 00:12:25.300 --> 00:12:28.600 the role of human perception and human curation 241 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:32.500 in the way that that data is selected understood 242 00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:34.900 and and so we 243 00:12:34.900 --> 00:12:37.700 have to understand the raw data is an oxymoron and 244 00:12:39.300 --> 00:12:41.000 Now then raw data. 245 00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:42.600 To give you an example. 246 00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:47.500 And I did an example of raw data would be for example, 247 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:51.000 I had labs done and my DDT 248 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:53.900 was Elevate and I was very good because 249 00:12:53.900 --> 00:12:55.900 I felt like Google was calling me an album. 250 00:12:56.400 --> 00:12:59.200 That alcoholic to boot but you know 251 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:03.000 just the fact is that if I had looked at that data income. 252 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.400 Oh, it's part of a standing order to monitor one 253 00:13:06.400 --> 00:13:09.600 of the medication side take and oh look this medication path 254 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.500 is an elevated ggt. No person who understands 255 00:13:12.500 --> 00:13:15.300 data in its context. It's going to say, 256 00:13:15.300 --> 00:13:18.100 oh you are a alcoholic just from 257 00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:22.500 an elevated you even though for another person another it 258 00:13:21.500 --> 00:13:25.000 might be used to comply with 259 00:13:24.800 --> 00:13:26.200 alcoholic treatment. 260 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.500 So records in particular, it's important 261 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:32.700 to understand as well that 262 00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:37.900 One an identical document can be many different records 263 00:13:37.900 --> 00:13:40.200 because records get their identity from what 264 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.800 we call the archival bond, which is the relationship of a 265 00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:46.600 particular record with other records that participate 266 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:49.500 in the same transaction. And this is part of that broader 267 00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:52.300 contextual Network that records live. So I 268 00:13:52.300 --> 00:13:55.200 like to give the example of I have a document. 269 00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:58.600 And that document shows that Jane Doe was convicted 270 00:13:58.600 --> 00:13:59.400 of sex. 271 00:13:59.800 --> 00:14:02.500 Now then that document is one kind 272 00:14:02.500 --> 00:14:05.300 of record when it's in the record of Jane's criminal trial. 273 00:14:05.900 --> 00:14:08.100 It becomes a very different record when we 274 00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:11.900 see it in the context of the records of the trial of Jane's 275 00:14:11.900 --> 00:14:14.600 arresting officer for perjury. It's the 276 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:18.100 exact same document not a letter has changed. It's printed 277 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:20.500 on the exact same papers same judges signature, 278 00:14:20.500 --> 00:14:23.300 but in a different context, it has a very 279 00:14:23.300 --> 00:14:26.500 different meaning and this idea of context is 280 00:14:26.500 --> 00:14:30.000 critical to what archivists and record professionals do. 281 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:35.600 Now then it's also important to understand that records. Don't 282 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.200 just exist in the context of one another records exist 283 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:41.300 in the context of a whole society. And 284 00:14:41.300 --> 00:14:44.700 in fact, I argue are a technology and an infrastructure 285 00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:45.600 of our society. 286 00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:47.900 but this is a quote from the 287 00:14:49.300 --> 00:14:52.900 Law Tech philosopher Mercia Hildebrand 288 00:14:52.900 --> 00:14:56.000 who says neither law nor technology are neutral 289 00:14:55.400 --> 00:14:59.100 experience and records are exactly the same they exist 290 00:14:58.100 --> 00:15:01.700 in the broader context of our society and 291 00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:04.700 they help the co-create it if we 292 00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:07.200 expect for example a passport when we cross 293 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.100 border and so the kind of records that we 294 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:13.900 have have helped create norms and expectations around 295 00:15:13.900 --> 00:15:16.700 the legal exchange and 296 00:15:16.700 --> 00:15:20.100 it's also important to understand that these law 297 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:23.200 records and Technology all exists relationally 298 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:25.600 and our coupon which means 299 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.900 that they form one another are norms around 300 00:15:28.900 --> 00:15:32.100 records. For example in North America 301 00:15:31.100 --> 00:15:34.400 and Canada. Yeah, we are 302 00:15:34.400 --> 00:15:37.800 descended from the English legal conditions. We have a testimonial 303 00:15:37.800 --> 00:15:40.900 tradition, which means that we can dance 304 00:15:40.900 --> 00:15:43.300 at records everyone who's Watch Law 305 00:15:43.300 --> 00:15:46.900 and Order has started at least one dramatic yellow say well 306 00:15:46.900 --> 00:15:49.000 most records here say absent 307 00:15:49.300 --> 00:15:52.200 exception like the business record rule because we 308 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.400 say well a business is going to be relying on those records 309 00:15:55.400 --> 00:15:58.700 to do its business so they wouldn't be lying it so 310 00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:01.800 we could trust them whereas in the civil law country where 311 00:16:01.800 --> 00:16:05.000 they have a strong material prediction the 312 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:09.900 Role of records and law have Arisen together such the records 313 00:16:09.900 --> 00:16:12.100 are foundational to law. 314 00:16:12.400 --> 00:16:15.900 And so you can see that within Society records 315 00:16:15.900 --> 00:16:18.400 law and our broader Technologies 316 00:16:18.400 --> 00:16:21.300 form one other constitute one other and we 317 00:16:21.300 --> 00:16:24.400 have a number of implicit norms and practices that 318 00:16:24.400 --> 00:16:26.800 arise just from there. 319 00:16:28.700 --> 00:16:32.400 So context and intermediation or like humans 320 00:16:31.400 --> 00:16:34.400 are messy and that's actually what I 321 00:16:34.400 --> 00:16:37.100 really love about. This field is the human penis that we get 322 00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:40.100 to you know observe and try to maybe either 323 00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:42.300 so 324 00:16:43.300 --> 00:16:47.300 trust is a key part of what archivism records 325 00:16:46.300 --> 00:16:50.400 professionals do and of 326 00:16:49.400 --> 00:16:52.300 course as we all know trust has become a 327 00:16:52.300 --> 00:16:55.200 very attenuated in the post 328 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.200 internet misinformation disinformation. 329 00:16:58.400 --> 00:17:01.400 World that we live in but I want to say that 330 00:17:01.400 --> 00:17:04.300 trust. It's not a big key kind of 331 00:17:04.300 --> 00:17:07.200 trust archivists don't deal in big tea truth. We 332 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.300 don't feel in Big B. Trust for us the 333 00:17:10.300 --> 00:17:13.500 idea of trust when it comes to a record is the idea 334 00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:16.400 that you can trust it for a purpose. 335 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:19.600 So and you know again to borrow from law 336 00:17:19.600 --> 00:17:22.200 the burden of proof in a Civil 337 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:25.800 Trial is like, you know 51% Where is the burden proof 338 00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:28.300 in a criminal trial is beyond a reasonable 339 00:17:28.300 --> 00:17:31.700 doubt because the consequences are so different what I 340 00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:35.100 might trust when I'm doing genealogical research 341 00:17:34.100 --> 00:17:38.000 for my own curiosity is very 342 00:17:37.100 --> 00:17:40.400 different from the level of trust. I need to 343 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:43.300 put in a record if I have a historical scholar looking. 344 00:17:44.800 --> 00:17:48.400 Um, so trust is a very fact 345 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:50.700 dependent question dependent kind 346 00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:53.300 of thing a record can be trustworthy for 347 00:17:53.300 --> 00:17:55.800 one purpose, but not efficiently trustworthy Ford. 348 00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:59.200 And what we've arrived that 349 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.600 arrived that excuse me in the post digital. 350 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.800 is this idea of trust as a 351 00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:07.900 a 352 00:18:10.600 --> 00:18:14.000 Trust is a multifaceted aspects of documents. And 353 00:18:13.100 --> 00:18:14.800 so this is the 354 00:18:16.300 --> 00:18:19.300 taxonomy of trustworthiness. It's an expansion of 355 00:18:19.300 --> 00:18:22.300 the ontology of trustworthinas from interparas to which 356 00:18:22.300 --> 00:18:26.100 is a long standing archival research project 357 00:18:26.100 --> 00:18:29.200 looking at digital records since you know for over 20 358 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:29.400 years. 359 00:18:30.100 --> 00:18:33.700 And for archivists and Records professionals, the trustworthiness 360 00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:37.100 of a record comes down really three accuracy 361 00:18:36.100 --> 00:18:39.400 and this is especially important for 362 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.400 digital records because they're so mutable has this thing 363 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.700 been reproduced, you know reliability, which 364 00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:48.400 is a aspect of 365 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.400 the record at creation. So when it says 366 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:54.400 confidence the author there that's the idea that as what 367 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.400 your politics cool as I might be. I have no 368 00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:59.100 competence to say 369 00:18:59.600 --> 00:19:02.700 Sign a contract to sell Clark right? That's 370 00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:05.400 not something that's within my confidence. I don't have that 371 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.200 Authority. I cannot author that kind of a record. 372 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.800 So however many perfectly written contracts. 373 00:19:11.800 --> 00:19:14.200 I might write and sell Clark calls. They will never 374 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.900 be reliable because that's something in my story, uh 375 00:19:17.900 --> 00:19:20.000 on the other side, you know, I might have 376 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.100 the authority but there are lots of procedures that have to be 377 00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:26.300 followed to make a record one. And so 378 00:19:26.300 --> 00:19:29.400 if I write up a contract and I don't get both parties 379 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.400 to sign or I don't have consideration then that's 380 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:34.800 not going to be affordable and again, it's not for life. 381 00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:38.300 And finally authenticity as I think the most interesting one 382 00:19:38.300 --> 00:19:41.600 digital and this is the idea of identity which 383 00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:45.000 you know, I talked about the archival bond earlier and integrity. 384 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:47.200 So, you know is this record 385 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.900 what it purports to be without any evidence of camp 386 00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:54.200 And so these things really straightforward. We're like, oh, 387 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.100 yeah that makes perfect sense and they these were 388 00:19:57.100 --> 00:20:00.200 pretty straightforward Concepts in the paperwork because we had 389 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.200 had literally thousands of years to perfect them. But how 390 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:04.400 does that work in the digital world? 391 00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:09.000 So one of the things that we have seen arriving and 392 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:11.200 this is specifically Arisen in my work on 393 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:15.000 blockchain technology. Is this idea that well humans kind 394 00:20:14.100 --> 00:20:17.500 of suck. We are not reliable. We 395 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:20.100 are super biased we are really problematic. 396 00:20:20.300 --> 00:20:24.100 So instead of having to trust the human what just 397 00:20:23.100 --> 00:20:26.700 trust the computer and I used quote 398 00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:29.600 from Kathy Finlay. I want to be fair to her that she also 399 00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:32.300 takes up the problematic nature of 400 00:20:32.300 --> 00:20:35.500 this idea that you know, okay. You can't 401 00:20:35.500 --> 00:20:38.400 be a neutral third part. We accept that, you know, I am 402 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.800 a settler and that very much changes my positionality with 403 00:20:41.800 --> 00:20:44.100 regards to questions colonization no matter 404 00:20:44.100 --> 00:20:44.300 how 405 00:20:46.100 --> 00:20:50.200 Humans can't be trusted to do it. But you know math be 406 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.600 biased right? So if we just trusted to 407 00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:55.700 the machines if we distance mediate take humans 408 00:20:55.700 --> 00:20:58.300 out of the whole question and just leave all 409 00:20:58.300 --> 00:21:01.600 of our decision-making and our record TV to the 410 00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:03.000 machines. It'll all be fine, right. 411 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.200 No, not so much turns out 412 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.500 that humans still make machines. We still program 413 00:21:12.500 --> 00:21:16.000 the mechanisms. We still decide whether 414 00:21:15.300 --> 00:21:18.400 we're going to use Bayesian approaches to evidence 415 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.500 for an AI it all comes back to humans 416 00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:24.200 as messy and as problematic as we are and so 417 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:27.500 as much as we might like to go beyond the idea 418 00:21:27.500 --> 00:21:31.300 of messy and subjective and 419 00:21:30.300 --> 00:21:33.400 complicated records in 420 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:34.000 context. 421 00:21:34.600 --> 00:21:35.600 We are not there yet. 422 00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:38.800 So no guiding that can't save us. 423 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.500 The simple truth is that you know when we get bigger texts, we 424 00:21:44.500 --> 00:21:46.800 sometimes have bigger problems. So this is from 425 00:21:48.100 --> 00:21:48.400 a 426 00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:53.000 relatively famous paper by Emily Bender at all 427 00:21:52.300 --> 00:21:56.600 that actually led to Bruce hosting 428 00:21:56.600 --> 00:21:59.100 from Google or was at least played a role it 429 00:21:59.100 --> 00:22:02.500 with about stochastic parrots and large language 430 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:04.800 and you know, it's the idea that 431 00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:06.400 the internet 432 00:22:07.100 --> 00:22:10.900 Is populated primary thought 433 00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:13.400 primarily and reflects a certain 434 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:17.300 hegemonic that a viewport that encode biases the 435 00:22:16.300 --> 00:22:20.100 internet's a real mess y'all I think we all know and 436 00:22:19.100 --> 00:22:22.600 but a lot of these large liquid models 437 00:22:22.600 --> 00:22:25.600 use internet data sets 438 00:22:25.600 --> 00:22:29.200 to trade the model. And 439 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.900 so what happens is we start to enclose 440 00:22:31.900 --> 00:22:34.500 those biases and we've seen this all over the place. We've seen, 441 00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:37.300 you know mortgage software. 442 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.500 Enacting red lighting without actually having to 443 00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:45.000 know the race of the potential borrowed we've 444 00:22:44.100 --> 00:22:47.500 seen, you know, Amazon tried to 445 00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:50.500 use AI to do hiring 446 00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:53.500 and instead ended up hiring a bunch of white guys 447 00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:56.600 because they use the folks. They had already hired as 448 00:22:56.600 --> 00:22:59.700 their status. And so when we 449 00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:02.700 are building on the existing 450 00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:05.700 data, which of course is built on our existing 451 00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:07.900 biases, it becomes a problem. 452 00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:11.800 And context is still critically important. So 453 00:23:11.800 --> 00:23:14.400 this is a new article about G opens, 454 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.700 which is the practice of 455 00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:20.500 law enforcement basically getting a 456 00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:23.800 subpoena on say Google or someone. Okay, who all 457 00:23:23.800 --> 00:23:26.200 was in the area at the time this crime was 458 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:29.100 commit this guy just was you a guy 459 00:23:29.100 --> 00:23:32.700 who was writing his bike every day around neighborhood, but it 460 00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:35.300 still might have suspect whereas, you know, a more 461 00:23:35.300 --> 00:23:38.400 human driven context driven approach might not 462 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.200 and the challenge is that we keep building 463 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.500 new information Communications Technologies, and they use 464 00:23:44.500 --> 00:23:48.000 both data and because we can now ingest 465 00:23:47.800 --> 00:23:51.300 amount of public records for a minimal. 466 00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:55.400 In very context freeway. So 467 00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:59.000 it's a very simple example, my name is one letter 468 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:01.600 off from my brother's name. Our birthdays 469 00:24:01.600 --> 00:24:04.200 are a year apart. We grew up in the same 470 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:07.300 household. I have spent years trying to disaggregate our 471 00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:10.300 credit reports. Whereas a human being say. Oh, obviously, those 472 00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:13.100 are separate human beings the data close enough 473 00:24:13.100 --> 00:24:14.600 that the systems often don't 474 00:24:15.600 --> 00:24:18.500 and the systems are often black boxes and then screwed 475 00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:20.800 up now, then there's a lot of work being done on. 476 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:24.200 State Fair 477 00:24:25.700 --> 00:24:28.400 Uh transparent ethical I always 478 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.400 forget they but there's a lot of work being done in the AI 479 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:34.400 space and in the broader computer science space to make 480 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.600 these systems more fruitable more fair 481 00:24:37.600 --> 00:24:40.300 more ethical. I don't want to dispute that but 482 00:24:40.300 --> 00:24:43.800 we are very much far from there and transparency is 483 00:24:43.800 --> 00:24:46.600 very much not Nastia, that would be 484 00:24:46.600 --> 00:24:49.500 because transparency is actually a 485 00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:50.300 really 486 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.100 complex idea. So this is a part of 487 00:24:54.100 --> 00:24:57.700 my dissertation work and when it comes to transparency, we 488 00:24:57.700 --> 00:25:00.400 expect it to serve as a form of 489 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.400 account. We also expect it to provide 490 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.500 insight into things, but it has 491 00:25:06.500 --> 00:25:06.800 to be 492 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:10.400 Built in such a way into the system that people 493 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:13.500 aren't incentivized they as with 494 00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.600 my government in the British and British Columbia Canada to 495 00:25:16.600 --> 00:25:19.600 just their records on Post-it notes 496 00:25:19.600 --> 00:25:22.800 so that they don't generate records to be tracked by and 497 00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:25.500 so contact is still really important and I 498 00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:28.900 think that a lot of the problems we're seeing arise because 499 00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:32.000 we haven't figured out how to build context in 500 00:25:31.100 --> 00:25:32.300 the data. 501 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:36.900 And in fact polympics matters more than ever because 502 00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.100 it's really only through context that 503 00:25:39.100 --> 00:25:42.400 we can figure out for example that Foreign featuring 504 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.400 a woman journalist who is being subject 505 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.400 to a nightmare campaign to silence her 506 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.100 is probably a deep thing, you know, 507 00:25:51.100 --> 00:25:54.000 it's context that allowed people to figure out that a lot 508 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:58.000 of the social media posts about the earthquakes in turkey and 509 00:25:57.600 --> 00:26:00.000 Syria or false, you know 510 00:26:00.300 --> 00:26:03.600 disinformation is getting worse and we're losing folks 511 00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:06.300 to comment so contact matters and 512 00:26:06.300 --> 00:26:07.000 it matters a lot. 513 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:11.300 and finally, I think we are finally reaching the point where 514 00:26:11.300 --> 00:26:14.600 we're going to have to confront the fact that the ideals of 515 00:26:14.600 --> 00:26:16.500 the digital are not reality of the 516 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.800 So one of the things that I'm always telling my students everything digital 517 00:26:20.800 --> 00:26:23.300 is material. We tend to have an I've even 518 00:26:23.300 --> 00:26:26.300 said it myself, you know digital physical that's not 519 00:26:26.300 --> 00:26:30.000 true. Every digital thing that we rely relies 520 00:26:29.100 --> 00:26:32.200 on real resources, you know, they're the 521 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.800 server room somewhere that's being cool with electricity or 522 00:26:35.800 --> 00:26:38.200 school that with water and electricity is 523 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.600 taking electricity. You're running it most servers with 524 00:26:41.600 --> 00:26:44.500 items. I need to block pain runs on 525 00:26:44.500 --> 00:26:47.800 more electricity the Bitcoin blockchain more electricity in 526 00:26:47.800 --> 00:26:48.800 the country of Wall Street. 527 00:26:49.300 --> 00:26:52.700 Everything digital is material and we can't pretend that 528 00:26:52.700 --> 00:26:53.100 it's not. 529 00:26:53.500 --> 00:26:56.300 The digital is also very fragile and 530 00:26:56.300 --> 00:27:00.100 very important. So if you were with 531 00:26:59.100 --> 00:27:02.800 digital preservation, you know migration the 532 00:27:02.800 --> 00:27:06.400 fact of life because things become obsolete files 533 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.300 have bit rot. Like it has 534 00:27:08.300 --> 00:27:11.600 to be constantly maintained even more so 535 00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:12.700 the paper records do 536 00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.100 It's also very expensive. There's this old 537 00:27:16.100 --> 00:27:19.200 bromide that storage is cheap and 538 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.400 that's just not true when it comes to storing digital 539 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.300 items. First off. We spend a ton of money in 540 00:27:25.300 --> 00:27:28.400 all of our time looking for stuff. You know, 541 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:31.300 I'm sure we've all been two hours going. I know 542 00:27:31.300 --> 00:27:34.500 I have that file. Where is that file? The average 543 00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:37.800 not knowledge worker uses at least 20 of their five percent 544 00:27:37.800 --> 00:27:39.300 of their time finding. 545 00:27:40.100 --> 00:27:43.900 But because we don't see the mess like we would with boxes 546 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:46.500 of papers. It's easy to 547 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:49.400 forward digitally it's hard to make 548 00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.400 good retention schedule and to figure out what's actually important 549 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.400 and what's not and to have policies and procedures 550 00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.400 to actually it's easy to just stick it 551 00:27:58.400 --> 00:27:59.300 on the drive anymore. 552 00:28:00.100 --> 00:28:03.800 And you know, ultimately the digital is just as 553 00:28:03.800 --> 00:28:06.500 messy and Powerful as the analog because 554 00:28:06.500 --> 00:28:09.200 it's made and used by people. So there's lots of 555 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:13.000 scholarship about digital colonialism. For example, because 556 00:28:12.500 --> 00:28:15.700 again, it's made by people who aren't even 557 00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:18.300 trying to build back but who are 558 00:28:18.300 --> 00:28:19.000 you know, 559 00:28:20.600 --> 00:28:23.400 Stuck in a positionality and don't even see that they're 560 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.100 reproducing things in which 561 00:28:26.100 --> 00:28:29.100 they have been in years fish don't know that they're 562 00:28:29.100 --> 00:28:32.400 in water similarly unless we've 563 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:36.000 really taken a lot of time. Most of us don't see the biases we're 564 00:28:35.100 --> 00:28:37.100 building and rebuilding in 565 00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:41.400 so I know we're all super depressed now, right? 566 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.400 So where are you telling us the 30? 567 00:28:45.600 --> 00:28:46.900 Action here is Hope. 568 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:50.200 So I always joke that everyone is out here trying to 569 00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:51.600 reinvent archival side. 570 00:28:52.100 --> 00:28:55.200 Because for example in the world of privacy where 571 00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:58.600 I do, there's a school called contextual practice. 572 00:28:59.100 --> 00:29:02.200 And it's exactly this argument that I've been making that we need 573 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.500 to understand things in this context. So, you know our privacy 574 00:29:05.500 --> 00:29:08.600 norms and expectations around a medical efforts are 575 00:29:08.600 --> 00:29:11.700 very different than our privacy norms and expectations around 576 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:12.800 say a 577 00:29:15.100 --> 00:29:19.100 cool paper which are different again to our driver's 578 00:29:18.100 --> 00:29:20.200 license and so on and 579 00:29:20.900 --> 00:29:23.800 so one of the things that contextual Integrity 580 00:29:23.800 --> 00:29:26.100 folks have been paying is oh we need to 581 00:29:26.100 --> 00:29:29.300 find ways to look at you know, who's the ACT? We're the 582 00:29:29.300 --> 00:29:32.500 actors. What is the attributes of this you how 583 00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:35.200 is it being sent and I read these things like, 584 00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:38.300 oh we have that archivist about that 585 00:29:38.300 --> 00:29:42.400 for a thousand years. We call it diplomatics, you know, right so, 586 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:44.300 you know, it's not a bad thing that 587 00:29:44.300 --> 00:29:46.800 we have been doing this work. In fact, 588 00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:51.600 My doctoral supervisor Dr. Luciano duronti has 589 00:29:51.600 --> 00:29:54.600 been the pi for interparas and 590 00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:57.500 then Enterprise trust and now inter Paris trust AI 591 00:29:57.500 --> 00:30:00.500 for over 20 years the longest running social sciences 592 00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:05.100 and Humanities research Council project in 593 00:30:04.100 --> 00:30:07.300 Canada. And you know, it started 594 00:30:07.300 --> 00:30:10.300 with you know, digital records and has gone through the 595 00:30:10.300 --> 00:30:13.200 cloud and the AI and everything else and you can 596 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:16.200 see I've included some of the studies I work on, you know, 597 00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.500 the Privacy said and so it's everything from you 598 00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:22.400 know privacy who working with 599 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:25.900 these so the work is be done the 600 00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:28.500 archivist the records folks. We're right here saying, you 601 00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:31.200 know what we see the risk. We 602 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:34.100 see the need we're ready to roll up our sleeves and 603 00:30:35.600 --> 00:30:38.600 I'm also very blessed in the school of information to have 604 00:30:38.600 --> 00:30:41.300 my colleagues Vic. Gosh and Michelle vehicle. I'm 605 00:30:41.300 --> 00:30:44.100 who are working with me on Project we call La Casa which is 606 00:30:44.100 --> 00:30:47.200 legally algorithmically and culturally where systems of 607 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.300 accountability where we're working to integrate these ideas 608 00:30:50.300 --> 00:30:53.700 archival Sciences ideas of context and 609 00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:56.400 accountability and compliance and 610 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.100 with cultural competence, which is 611 00:30:59.100 --> 00:31:02.300 that could be a God's specialty and Ai and 612 00:31:02.300 --> 00:31:05.700 then law because ultimately knowing solve any 613 00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:08.400 of these really messy broad reaching human 614 00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:11.200 problems in Asylum. It requires us 615 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.900 all to reach out and work together and I 616 00:31:14.900 --> 00:31:17.400 feel really blessed to be very small 617 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:18.000 part of that. 618 00:31:20.100 --> 00:31:20.400 so 619 00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:21.700 come on. 620 00:31:22.600 --> 00:31:25.200 When I first went to law school 621 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.200 in my 20, I thought I would say the world. 622 00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:31.300 Then I hit my 30s and I went to a PhD with the idea that maybe 623 00:31:31.300 --> 00:31:34.700 I could make the world a little bit better. Yeah, we broke grow. 624 00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:35.600 We learned we become. 625 00:31:36.800 --> 00:31:39.300 And so sometimes I'll be honest. Sometimes I 626 00:31:39.300 --> 00:31:42.500 look at you know, the state of things and despair. I 627 00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:45.300 think all of us do but I always like to 628 00:31:45.300 --> 00:31:49.500 remind myself of this quote from Victor Franklin who was 629 00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:52.100 all a holocaust survive and 630 00:31:51.100 --> 00:31:54.200 his book man search for meaning 631 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:57.700 was based on his experiences the camps 632 00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:00.300 and he reminds us between stimulus and 633 00:32:00.300 --> 00:32:02.400 response. There is a space. 634 00:32:03.100 --> 00:32:06.400 In that space is our power to choose our response 635 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.800 in our response lives our growth and 636 00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:10.600 our grief. 637 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.300 So even though I sometimes despair. 638 00:32:14.100 --> 00:32:17.400 I'm you know at heart I'm someone whose whole life is archives and 639 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:18.000 Records management. 640 00:32:18.600 --> 00:32:20.800 That is a choice to work. 641 00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:24.600 For the future that you will never see to believe 642 00:32:24.600 --> 00:32:27.200 in a future that you will never see and to say 643 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.500 that that future should have the right to condemn us 644 00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:33.400 to praise us but they have the right to know who we 645 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:36.800 were what we did and to make their own judgments on 646 00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:40.000 who and what we are and what we did and when 647 00:32:39.600 --> 00:32:42.400 we live in this world of constant 648 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.300 stimulus, I think it critical that all 649 00:32:45.300 --> 00:32:49.400 of us as Scholars as students as human take 650 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.700 the space and decide that our response 651 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:54.100 is going to be better. Our response is going to 652 00:32:54.100 --> 00:32:58.000 look towards the future. I'll never see and say today I'm 653 00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.800 going to do something to make tomorrow. 654 00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:05.400 So thank you all so much for having 655 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.500 me. I'm delighted to have had the chance to 656 00:33:08.500 --> 00:33:10.600 share this field that I love and care so much about 657 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:13.800 and I look forward to all of your questions. 658 00:33:16.100 --> 00:33:17.600 All right, I think. 659 00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:22.100 This allows us to open up some time for questions. 660 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:26.100 And I'm gonna take Provost prerogative and 661 00:33:26.100 --> 00:33:27.400 and throw one out there. 662 00:33:28.300 --> 00:33:31.100 Thank you for the talk. I thought it was 663 00:33:31.100 --> 00:33:34.300 very interesting and very Dynamic and and one of 664 00:33:34.300 --> 00:33:37.300 the things I've long thought about in this space 665 00:33:37.300 --> 00:33:40.800 that you bring back over and over again is that 666 00:33:40.800 --> 00:33:43.000 the digital is material? 667 00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:46.900 It is it is a physical. 668 00:33:48.100 --> 00:33:51.800 Thing in which we engage it's connected by wires. 669 00:33:51.800 --> 00:33:55.100 It's got places. It takes money, right? 670 00:33:54.100 --> 00:33:58.200 It's not the cloud is produced a 671 00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:01.000 sense of immateriality to all 672 00:34:00.100 --> 00:34:04.200 this and the messiness you're talking about in this 673 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:07.400 talk right is tied to that 674 00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.400 materiality. So how do we think about 675 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.400 that and the materiality of Digital Life? 676 00:34:14.200 --> 00:34:17.800 And how does it impact then our understanding of the archive which 677 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:21.100 is more than just these most their 678 00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:23.300 their ephemera. They're all kinds of things 679 00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:26.100 that constitute the archive. So I'm 680 00:34:26.100 --> 00:34:27.800 generally curious how you think about that. 681 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.200 Oh, yeah, I think that it's one of those things 682 00:34:31.200 --> 00:34:34.900 that we really have to better work. 683 00:34:34.900 --> 00:34:37.700 It's because it didn't participate in a transaction and 684 00:34:37.700 --> 00:34:40.600 it turns those records those Communications into 685 00:34:40.600 --> 00:34:41.200 transact. 686 00:34:41.700 --> 00:34:44.200 And so I think in some way 687 00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:47.700 it of course can forces us as archivists to 688 00:34:47.700 --> 00:34:50.200 confront that the idea of traces and 689 00:34:50.200 --> 00:34:53.200 it's ever but it also I think really kind of 690 00:34:53.200 --> 00:34:56.300 underlying the the power of our really 691 00:34:56.300 --> 00:34:59.600 traditional tools and perspectives to be able to trace 692 00:34:59.600 --> 00:35:03.100 these old fault lines of you know, bureaucratic power 693 00:35:03.100 --> 00:35:06.400 and capital power that we have always been 694 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:08.600 able to see by tracking things. 695 00:35:11.900 --> 00:35:14.300 Yeah, so we got a couple questions that now popped up. 696 00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:17.200 So Michael Kaufman or Dean from the College 697 00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:20.400 of science asks, how much of the lost data problem is simply not 698 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.700 having the equipment time money to retrieve data 699 00:35:23.700 --> 00:35:25.100 from old formats. 700 00:35:25.700 --> 00:35:27.500 Huge huge problems. So for example 701 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.500 my husband actually asked me this question when I forced them 702 00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:34.500 to listen to prayer for this talk which he's 703 00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:36.000 a very good most plumbers could 704 00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:39.300 but I told him, you 705 00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:42.300 know, we Emory University as an example 706 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:45.400 has element Rusty's old computers and stuff so far. 707 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:48.100 They've said I think around four or five million 708 00:35:48.100 --> 00:35:48.800 dollars US 709 00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.400 Just to recover one person that and so 710 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.100 the investment it would take to be able to 711 00:35:55.100 --> 00:35:59.000 find and then recover from all these obsolete machines 712 00:35:58.200 --> 00:36:01.200 that it's copy this and that sort 713 00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:05.600 of thing would be a tremendous investment one 714 00:36:04.600 --> 00:36:07.600 that I don't think we're anywhere near 715 00:36:07.600 --> 00:36:08.600 equipped to make it. 716 00:36:10.300 --> 00:36:13.700 I could say personally having moved from floppies to 717 00:36:13.700 --> 00:36:16.700 zip to discs. I 718 00:36:16.700 --> 00:36:19.100 kind of gave up at some point just went you know, 719 00:36:19.100 --> 00:36:22.400 what I guess. I'm not gonna get that paper back from back 720 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.100 in the day. Um wildest we 721 00:36:25.100 --> 00:36:28.200 just moved our nuclear weapons all these a couple of years 722 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:28.600 ago. 723 00:36:30.700 --> 00:36:33.700 Of thank you for that moment of 724 00:36:33.700 --> 00:36:38.400 nonsense. So Carissa 725 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:40.300 bordona also asked she says is 726 00:36:40.300 --> 00:36:43.600 really great discussion. Appreciate the specific notes about 727 00:36:43.600 --> 00:36:46.500 how despair can be present when the problems 728 00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:49.300 were were faced. It seems so big it's hard to 729 00:36:49.300 --> 00:36:52.000 see the small wins. Sometimes. Do you have any 730 00:36:52.100 --> 00:36:56.300 other recommendations for being inspired instead of overwhelmed? She 731 00:36:55.300 --> 00:36:58.200 had the quote by Frankel's beautiful as well. 732 00:36:58.200 --> 00:36:59.300 Thank you for that reminder. 733 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.200 That book is a that's a that's a touchdown book 734 00:37:03.200 --> 00:37:07.200 for me. It's one of those really great ones whenever you're disappearing students. 735 00:37:06.200 --> 00:37:09.600 I think for me are one of those great sources of 736 00:37:09.600 --> 00:37:12.500 inspiration and hope and I saw 737 00:37:12.500 --> 00:37:15.400 in here a couple students a couple of my students, I 738 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:15.500 think. 739 00:37:16.200 --> 00:37:19.400 So like because you know, like they're choosing 740 00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:22.400 to engage in our work our field our world and they 741 00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.800 bring such energy and insight and you know, 742 00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:28.200 they probably been traumatized the worst of 743 00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:31.600 us all from the last few years of you know, fire blood and 744 00:37:31.600 --> 00:37:34.000 play, but they still bring it every day. 745 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.400 So they're a big source of Hope for me. 746 00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:41.000 So awesome, and you know 747 00:37:41.100 --> 00:37:44.200 what to the team maybe we could take maybe we don't need the 748 00:37:44.200 --> 00:37:47.200 last slide and we can open it up and see each 749 00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:50.100 other a little more. But so John Oakes asked what can we 750 00:37:50.100 --> 00:37:53.700 do now today on the front end to capture an appropriately preserve 751 00:37:53.700 --> 00:37:56.600 data for things like 3D scans audio 752 00:37:56.600 --> 00:37:59.200 video. It's just so much but is there 753 00:37:59.200 --> 00:38:02.400 a way to think about archive and preservation going 754 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:05.300 into a project that makes it easier to preserve down the road 755 00:38:05.300 --> 00:38:08.300 sometimes In the Heat of a project you don't think about 756 00:38:08.300 --> 00:38:10.100 preservation while you're making it. 757 00:38:10.700 --> 00:38:12.100 Get archives on your team. 758 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.200 It's all seriousness. Like 759 00:38:15.200 --> 00:38:19.100 John is actually working with me on the Northern Cheyenne 760 00:38:18.100 --> 00:38:20.900 project. And so he's just giving me. 761 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.400 But no preservation is 762 00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:27.600 one of those things that's almost impossible at the back end. So at the 763 00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:30.800 front end, you have to think about you know, what who 764 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.300 will need this what they'll need it for. Um, 765 00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:36.900 and I think just as importantly what you can let go we 766 00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.700 can't afford in terms of time or energy 767 00:38:39.700 --> 00:38:40.300 or 768 00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:45.200 really any sort of resource to save everything. 769 00:38:45.200 --> 00:38:48.200 We are producing more data each year 770 00:38:48.200 --> 00:38:51.700 than in the entirety of human history. And so, you 771 00:38:51.700 --> 00:38:54.300 know what we call in the archives appraisal and selection is a 772 00:38:54.300 --> 00:38:56.800 critical critical piece of moving forward. 773 00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:58.400 awesome 774 00:38:59.300 --> 00:39:00.100 well 775 00:39:01.600 --> 00:39:05.100 We are got another couple questions 776 00:39:04.100 --> 00:39:07.500 actually just come in. Well more comment, but 777 00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.300 I think it'd be great for you to react to it. This is 778 00:39:10.300 --> 00:39:13.200 very thoughtful from Jessica Bush. He said Dara thank 779 00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:16.700 you for the presentation. I agree with your response to the 780 00:39:16.700 --> 00:39:19.400 Provost and add that the materiality of 781 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:23.500 of digital has a direct correlation with proprietary 782 00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:25.500 it infrastructure and the 783 00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:28.100 commodification of cultural communication and social 784 00:39:28.100 --> 00:39:31.600 media and AI created communication images text 785 00:39:31.600 --> 00:39:35.300 video will continue this trend. So, how 786 00:39:34.300 --> 00:39:37.800 do you how do we think about that within the 787 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:41.000 context of what you're talking about? And and 788 00:39:40.300 --> 00:39:43.400 the and that's it that is a big piece of 789 00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:46.900 the materiality is that we're all operating 790 00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:50.100 on a on a system produced 791 00:39:49.100 --> 00:39:52.600 by capital in a 792 00:39:52.600 --> 00:39:55.700 neoliberal environment. So, you know, how do 793 00:39:55.700 --> 00:39:59.200 we manage that? Think about it? That's a 794 00:39:58.200 --> 00:40:00.600 really dark of this as well. So 795 00:40:01.300 --> 00:40:04.500 But no, I think that she's absolutely 796 00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:07.200 right and that's one of the big problem. So for example, when we teach 797 00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:10.500 best practices in digital curation, we always tell them. Oh you 798 00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:13.200 want open source, you want open format? But that's just 799 00:40:13.200 --> 00:40:16.100 not practical. For example with GIS. They for example, 800 00:40:16.100 --> 00:40:20.300 you're not gonna get open source all that and that increasingly the 801 00:40:19.300 --> 00:40:22.200 case that things are locked behind 802 00:40:22.200 --> 00:40:25.200 table for lack of and I don't have 803 00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:28.500 a solution. Like, I'd love to Noodle with people on 804 00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:32.000 how we move beyond that, but it's absolutely one 805 00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:34.500 of it's been one of the historical problems for 806 00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:35.100 preserve. 807 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.600 Data, and it's going to be one of our ongoing problems 808 00:40:38.600 --> 00:40:42.900 is that you know the tech moves 809 00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:45.300 at a really fast cycle and they're incentivized to 810 00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:48.900 constantly, you know, obsolescence planned obsolescence 811 00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:52.000 is a thing the content makes money and of 812 00:40:51.100 --> 00:40:54.500 course you want to offer new and better features and 813 00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:57.300 all that. Well, but backwards compatibility is rare, so 814 00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:00.000 I don't know how we move past that I know 815 00:41:00.200 --> 00:41:02.400 that we just do the best we can with what we have. 816 00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:06.300 Yeah, no, it's really interesting because you know, 817 00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:09.200 I'm a geographer. It's a GIS right? There is 818 00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:12.800 a lot of open saw Source software out there. There's big 819 00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:16.100 projects in public participatory GIS but 820 00:41:15.100 --> 00:41:18.800 also not in the US 821 00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:21.700 very much but in cities like Barcelona, there's 822 00:41:21.700 --> 00:41:24.400 a technological sovereignty movement. People are 823 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:27.500 you know creating new ways and I'm 824 00:41:27.500 --> 00:41:30.800 just curious in in your world of the archivist 825 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:33.100 the data collections. Maybe are we seeing these kind of 826 00:41:33.100 --> 00:41:36.500 Guerrilla movements he's ways of like thinking about what 827 00:41:36.500 --> 00:41:39.200 Jessica brings up as a question of 828 00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:42.300 how people are responding to some of the power and 829 00:41:42.300 --> 00:41:45.900 authority that comes with the infrastructure and 830 00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:46.500 who owns it. 831 00:41:47.300 --> 00:41:50.600 I always joke that everyone in the information professions of 832 00:41:50.600 --> 00:41:53.300 secretly a radicals. So underneath our 833 00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:56.100 Cardigans, we all have tattoos. But yeah, no, I think 834 00:41:56.100 --> 00:41:59.200 there's very much that movement towards you know, like we're all there 835 00:41:59.200 --> 00:42:02.800 to the fundamental ethos behind both archives 836 00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:05.500 is the idea of connecting people 837 00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:08.600 with information making the information people need available. 838 00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:11.500 So I think that we're forever looking for work around 839 00:42:11.500 --> 00:42:14.500 you it's one archive has that paper take 840 00:42:14.500 --> 00:42:17.200 reader and another decent it'll find its way there. You 841 00:42:17.200 --> 00:42:18.600 know, we're all through 842 00:42:20.200 --> 00:42:23.800 um, but no, I think there's very much that that urge to 843 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:27.000 push forward and find 844 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:27.700 solutions that 845 00:42:29.700 --> 00:42:32.200 so Jessica put a sight in I put it in the 846 00:42:32.200 --> 00:42:35.500 chat if people want to click on it and go out there. Um, 847 00:42:35.500 --> 00:42:39.000 well, I will say this is a fantastic conversation. 848 00:42:38.600 --> 00:42:41.200 I'm so excited. You're part of San Jose State. 849 00:42:41.200 --> 00:42:44.300 I think you bring some really interesting, um, 850 00:42:44.300 --> 00:42:47.300 you know questions to the table and I think 851 00:42:47.300 --> 00:42:50.500 there's a lot of opportunity to continue explore as well as for San 852 00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:53.400 Jose State to lead in these conversations. So thank you 853 00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.800 so much for a really fantastic talk and conversation. 854 00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:59.500 I really appreciate it. So thank you. It's my 855 00:42:59.500 --> 00:43:02.700 real pleasure to have been invited. I'm very honored. 856 00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:06.600 And everyone feel free to email me. I can talk about archives all 857 00:43:06.600 --> 00:43:07.000 day every day. 858 00:43:07.700 --> 00:43:10.200 And Mariah put a note in we 859 00:43:10.200 --> 00:43:13.400 got our next speaker coming up on March 8th, Eric, Dr. Erica 860 00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:16.100 Berman who's paper is I'm reading right 861 00:43:16.100 --> 00:43:20.000 here the power of dance the Vietnamese ballroom and European monarchy 862 00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:22.500 after the French Revolution. You can register for 863 00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.300 that. I also did a podcast with Erica and now 864 00:43:25.300 --> 00:43:28.700 Dara I think I'm gonna have to rope you into the podcast. We've 865 00:43:28.700 --> 00:43:31.800 reignited The Accidental geographer. So excited 866 00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:35.300 to extend the conversation that way so stay 867 00:43:34.300 --> 00:43:37.500 tuned for that one. Thank you. Again Dara. 868 00:43:37.500 --> 00:43:40.800 It was really awesome. Thanks to the team who work 869 00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:43.100 through all the amazing glitches to make 870 00:43:43.100 --> 00:43:46.700 sure we had this today and for all those who are able to attend. Thank 871 00:43:46.700 --> 00:43:47.400 you for being here. 872 00:43:48.200 --> 00:43:55.200 It is. 873 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:28.200 you